Nabasa Pheona Wall is most definitely a force to reckon with, when it comes to the legal and justice sector in Uganda. Last year, she became the fourth woman to be elected as President of the Uganda Law Society in the 64 years of it’s existence, having previously served the legal body in the position of Vice President and doubling as the Chairperson of the legal aid and Pro Bono Project.
The proud mother of 3 who describes herself as a mother, wife and a Ugandan lawyer by profession, has been an advocate for almost 15 years. Pheona is also a communications professional, a chartered mediator who heads the legal department at National Water and Sewerage Corporation.
Last week, she was awarded the 2021 ‘Peace and Reconciliation’ award in recognition of the remarkable work she has done in the preservation of the rule of law in Uganda, especially during these past few months on behalf of the Uganda Law Society.
Pheona says she is passionate about legal aid, increasing access to justice to Uganda, rule of law, social justice and women empowerment. “I believe that my calling comes from Proverbs Chapter 31 Verse 9 which says speak up for those that cannot speak up for themselves. That’s something that drives me.” We had the pleasure of interviewing her about women and leadership, Uganda’s politics, among other things.
In your experience, are leaders made or born? Why?
I think leaders are born but I think leadership skills need to be horned and leaders need to work with purpose to become true leaders. Growing up, I was very assertive and I knew what I wanted in life. When I went to secondary school, I was very introverted and shy but I think there are certain things that come out naturally from you. Someone said there are 3 things that do not respect anybody that is the power of alcohol, the power of anger and the power of honesty in a child. I think leaders are born because there are people you will throw at a situation and they will give direction, they will inspire, and do this naturally. However, if leadership is not horned deliberately then it can be very dangerous. That charisma has made people lead cults, lead people into killing themselves. etc. There are things that are in born, that God gives to leaders and if taken for granted and not nurtured in the right environment, it can be very dangerous. That’s why I believe leaders are born.
What are the driving forces behind your success in leadership?
Right now I am operating on the slogan ‘faithful, available and teachable’ which is something I have been preaching for the last 5 years and trying to practice.
First of all, you’ve got to be faithful to who you are. You need to be very aware of who you are, what your strengths and weaknesses are, what values you stand for, and you have to make sure that whatever you do, whatever decisions you make, are consistent with what you say you are. You need to walk your talk and that’s faithfulness. You have to be available, make yourself available to people, opportunities. For instance, when you volunteer for service, you will find that it will be natural for people to gravitate towards you and you might end up in leadership because you chose to serve and that gives you an opportunity to actually share your values.
I always tell people not to dictate their vision, but rather sell the vision to people. When you sell the vision to people, then you create followers. You might have a very fancy vision, it may be the best thing for the world, but if no one believes in it, no one will execute it and even if you tried to, whoever comes after you will just do away with it. I therefore think it is very important for you to be available to your stakeholders and followers so that they understand what you are selling them.
You also have to be teachable; I am talking about flexibility here, your willingness to change, to admit that there is a better opinion and your willingness to accept change. I am not very comfortable with change; it takes me a while. I need to be convinced, but when I am convinced, I will go all the way and I will take all my children and people. My husband says I could sell sand to an Arab. I believe however that if I don’t actually believe that that sand has any worth to it, then I will not even be able to call it sand let alone sell it.
I think it is very important to be teachable, to allow yourself not to be a full cup, allow yourself to learn because mentorship is what exposes you to good leadership and through mentorship, you learn from the mistakes of your elders. I keep telling people that experience is a very expensive teacher. If you don’t want to pay the price, learn from those that have come before you.
First of all, you’ve got to be faithful to who you are. You need to be very aware of who you are, what your strengths and weaknesses are, what values you stand for, and you have to make sure that whatever you do, whatever decisions you make, are consistent with what you say you are. You need to walk your talk and that’s faithfulness. You have to be available, make yourself available to people, opportunities. For instance, when you volunteer for service, you will find that it will be natural for people to gravitate towards you and you might end up in leadership because you chose to serve and that gives you an opportunity to actually share your values.
I always tell people not to dictate their vision, but rather sell the vision to people. When you sell the vision to people, then you create followers. You might have a very fancy vision, it may be the best thing for the world, but if no one believes in it, no one will execute it and even if you tried to, whoever comes after you will just do away with it. I therefore think it is very important for you to be available to your stakeholders and followers so that they understand what you are selling them.
You also have to be teachable; I am talking about flexibility here, your willingness to change, to admit that there is a better opinion and your willingness to accept change. I am not very comfortable with change; it takes me a while. I need to be convinced, but when I am convinced, I will go all the way and I will take all my children and people. My husband says I could sell sand to an Arab. I believe however that if I don’t actually believe that that sand has any worth to it, then I will not even be able to call it sand let alone sell it.
I think it is very important to be teachable, to allow yourself not to be a full cup, allow yourself to learn because mentorship is what exposes you to good leadership and through mentorship, you learn from the mistakes of your elders. I keep telling people that experience is a very expensive teacher. If you don’t want to pay the price, learn from those that have come before you.
How do you go about making decisions that honor your instinct rather than giving in to the pressure and expectations that people have for what you should do?
I sell to people my vision, who I am and what I stand for. Sometimes, they will not even present certain decisions to me because they can predict very easily how those decisions will sit with me and what stand I will take. This comes from being very consistent in your character, in your values and making yourself available so that people understand what you value. You become a little predictable, people trust predictable so be clear who you are and stick to that lane.
Uganda held her general elections last month. Why do you think it is that we’ve not had a woman president so far? What can be done?
Women have not been very united in strengthening each other. We’ve been busy mobilizing women but not organizing women. There is something I always copy from a friend of mine who uses it a lot. If you get a pile of bricks and put it at a building site, it’s just a pile of bricks. If rain comes, or sunshine, the weather will have its way with the bricks. However, if you organize those bricks, and you build a wall, that wall will withstand the weather and anything that comes with it for generations to come.
We need to realize that we are a constituency and in Uganda we are more than the men. If we were to stand up and vote for the women in the different positions of power we would get it. Unfortunately we are not very well organized and women are not involved in organizing women.
You will find that everything that we have right now it’s the men that have done for us, it’s the men that have made space for us, it’s the men that have pushed us up. Some women have indeed contributed greatly but how many of us women have actually pushed other women up? We need to be involved in this and until we are deliberate about that we will not have a woman president. Why, because the women that are in power especially in politics now have been put in by men, so they feel like they represent the interests of those that put them in power.
Women are people that thrive in an environment that is conventional, that’s why, nowadays, we have women CEOs at various banks but you will find that the organizations where these women are thriving are very well structured where you just dot the I’s. This is because most women find security in structure, systems and want the predictability of proper governance systems working. Now, you don’t find that in Uganda’s politics. There are very many other reasons like funding and finance. Elections are very expensive; women are still financially unable to sometimes even look after themselves. There’s also a heavy price on the family when women go into politics, among other things.
Women are people that thrive in an environment that is conventional, that’s why, nowadays, we have women CEOs at various banks but you will find that the organizations where these women are thriving are very well structured where you just dot the I’s. This is because most women find security in structure, systems and want the predictability of proper governance systems working. Now, you don’t find that in Uganda’s politics. There are very many other reasons like funding and finance. Elections are very expensive; women are still financially unable to sometimes even look after themselves. There’s also a heavy price on the family when women go into politics, among other things.
Any tips on how women can position themselves for success in elections?
First of all I think women can be able to provide very good answers to today’s political question on whether they can garner confidence in the people I think that’s very easy, the biggest things that are facing women right now is ensuring that the elections are not rigged, ensuring that there are no election malpractices both on your side and on the side of your opponent, that means educate yourself. Uganda Law Society is available to give you all the political education that you require, just call our toll free number. Once you educate yourself, you need to learn to mobilize finances, support structure, people that you’ll work with when you are in power. You have to look for financing and have to be part of a team for instance the woman that is going for woman MP or Youth MP, you should align yourself with all the ‘Naabakyalas’ of your constituency and make sure that they are behind you. For the beginning I think women need to look beyond party lines and all the things that divide us and just say for now we are looking at getting more women in power because once we do that, we are organized and more effective and that means that the ‘Naabakyala’ will campaign for the women representatives who represents their interests and eventually you will find that there are women leaders everywhere.
Women need to actually get involved in local politics; women mostly run for the affirmative action positions, I think we should have LC1, LC3, LC5, that are women.
I am passionate about women becoming leaders because women are nurturing and will think about the welfare of their communities. We have seen many times that the male leaders that we pick always go for the obvious things that politicians go for, like the roads, but a woman will make sure there’s a hospital, clinic, maternity wing in the Health Center 3, among other things.
So politicians, please educate yourselves the law, share stories, create a support system of people that have gone ahead of you, look for mentors, let them tell you what they have been going through, what to expect from elections, how to reach people, the strategies you may use, pray, use your normal support systems and ensure that you get support from your families. Remember that your family is going to pay a price when you are in leadership so do not leave them behind.
I think the country should also look into this, when a woman is running for office, there should be some affirmative action support given to them. Why? Because as we speak, we only have 30% representatives in parliament and we have 3% representative in local government, so that shows that we need affirmative action for women in political positions so there should be some kind of incentives given to encourage women to participate more as candidates in elections.
Can you share some practical strategies that a young woman who looks up to you and wants to get where you are within a short period can follow?
Again I will say, be faithful, find out who you, your identity, do soul searching and find out what you stand for because if you don’t stand for anything, you will fall for anything and that will be the end before you even begin.
Be faithful to those values, commit to them, write them somewhere, speak them into your life daily, live them and most importantly make the hard choices. If you are at university right now and your friends are cheating, choose not to cheat, do the hard work. Avail yourself and volunteer for different positions, whether it is leadership or serving. Get as many skills as you can, if they need an MC, be that MC. Someone told me something that was invaluable in my life “togaya mulimu”, I have been a DJ, I have done so many things and all these things have helped me get life skills like public speaking and I got these skills in the most unexplainable way possible. You would have thought, I could learn public speaking from getting a big job in for example the UN and speaking out there, but no; the UN will not give you a job if you do not know how to speak in public and don’t have a record of having done it. All these things not only build your skill set, but also they are make you visible to the people that will one day call you for even bigger responsibilities. Be teachable, be flexible, do not be stiff and unbendable for example when I was working in Airtel, we had to put on hijabs and go to mosques to talk to the Muslim community about the services they needed. I did that despite being a Christian.
Be faithful to those values, commit to them, write them somewhere, speak them into your life daily, live them and most importantly make the hard choices. If you are at university right now and your friends are cheating, choose not to cheat, do the hard work. Avail yourself and volunteer for different positions, whether it is leadership or serving. Get as many skills as you can, if they need an MC, be that MC. Someone told me something that was invaluable in my life “togaya mulimu”, I have been a DJ, I have done so many things and all these things have helped me get life skills like public speaking and I got these skills in the most unexplainable way possible. You would have thought, I could learn public speaking from getting a big job in for example the UN and speaking out there, but no; the UN will not give you a job if you do not know how to speak in public and don’t have a record of having done it. All these things not only build your skill set, but also they are make you visible to the people that will one day call you for even bigger responsibilities. Be teachable, be flexible, do not be stiff and unbendable for example when I was working in Airtel, we had to put on hijabs and go to mosques to talk to the Muslim community about the services they needed. I did that despite being a Christian.
What is the best leadership advice you have ever been given?
The best leadership advice that I have ever been given has been by four people. One is a quote from Martin Luther King that says that ‘injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere’. In leadership, if you see any injustice anywhere that you tolerate, stomach or keep quiet about, it will be a threat to everything you stand for tomorrow. The second advise I got was from one of my first bosses Honorable Mary Kiwanuka who said ‘the back starts with you’. It is a call to excellence and service and what that meant for me, was that if you are given a task, give it your all and it will pay off. The other advice I was given is to value family always, everything else will pass away, but you will have family. The last and most important advice that i have ever received is from Jesus in Matthew where he says ‘Seek first the kingdom of God and all the rest shall come to you’ and that for me has helped calm me down. I always remember that I have to seek first the kingdom and while I am doing that, while I am about His business, He’s about mine.
Quick Five
- What is the first thing you thought of this morning?
The first thing that I thought this morning was ‘I can sleep in a little’. That was really awesome. - What is the last thing you googled?
The last thing i googled today was the direction to a particular office that i needed to go to. - If you could meet one person alive or dead, who would it be and why?
I really like Jill Scott. I just want to spend time with her and understand who she is. I think she is a fantastic woman who is very comfortable in her skin. Her music is very edifying, independent and well thought through. I would love to spend a day with her, have coffee and laugh like girls do because I feel like we have a lot in common and there’s a little more in her that I would like to learn from. - What is on your current music playlist?
I have been going down memory lane. I have a lot of Ron Cronin and Hellen Baylor going on but Jill Scott is also happening a lot. I also love Lady Antebellum and Emmy Grant I love deep music and lyrics that just speak to you. For gospel I love Ron Cronin because of the free and inhibited way that he worships the Lord. - Uganda zaabu…what is the most Ugandan thing about you?
I have eaten my fair share of rolex, I don’t know whether that counts. The other Ugandan thing about me is when someone says ‘look at this’, I just want to touch and feel it! They say Ugandans’ eyes are in their fingers so I am one of those.
